Obama on Afghanistan: Much Ado About Nuthin’
I think it’s worth noting that the right and some of the rival Dem campaigns have undies bunched over this:
“We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there,” Obama said. — Yahoo News
The right is busy lockstepping to the Obama is down the tubes/doesn’t support the troops mantra, and the Dem rivals are picking it up too. Problem is, that the man is simply stating what is happening in Afghanistan at the moment. Regrettably, and acknowledged by our President and theirs, we have an unacceptable number of US caused civilian causualties. Truth doesn’t denigrate our troops; avoiding truth doesn’t help us make better decisions either.
A check of the facts shows that Western forces have been killing civilians at a faster rate than the insurgents have been killing civilians.The U.S. and NATO say they don’t have civilian casualty figures, but The Associated Press has been keeping count based on figures from Afghan and international officials. Tracking civilian deaths is a difficult task because they often occur in remote and dangerous areas that are difficult to reach and verify.
As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can’t be attributed to one party.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai expressed his concern about the civilian deaths during a meeting last week with President Bush.
Bush said he understands the agony that Afghans feel over the loss of innocent lives and that he is doing everything he can to protect them. He said the Taliban are using civilians as human shields and have no regard for their lives.
“The president rightly expressed his concerns about civilian casualty,” Bush said of Karzai. “And I assured him that we share those concerns.” — Yahoo News
Telling the truth is a tough road these days. We’ve become so accustomed to smear that we don’t actually hear what’s real. We need to develop a national skeptic ear. It always boils down to ‘who benefits’. I believe Obama is seen as a real threat by Republicans, who can’t stomach the idea of the DC Obama envisions, and by his Dem rivals for that same reason, plus the fact that his monetary support is so strong among individual voters. That’s the real motivation behind the smear. The fact that Obama continues to speak of how things are, rather than how things are politically, is capturing the individual voter. It’s gaining more traction in the press, too. What it means 4 months from now is anybody’s guess.
August 15th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Uh-uh. He stated it as if it were U.S. military policy to target and kill civilians. Note the emphasis in bold:
That says that that is all we are doing. It also says that the 21,000 ground troops we do have on the ground aren’t doing anything, which clearly isn’t the case. The AP using international officials to keep track of civilian casualties is not one bit reliable as they are prone to be anti-American (much like many in the AP are) and count terrorists as civilians. Obama is a putz, and a week one at that. Besides, if Obama believes our military is made up of nothing but war criminals, then why does he want to use them to invade Pakistan? Would he use them to target civilians?
August 15th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Your wrong as usual SteveIL..Obama isn’t weak, he is saying more than any of the other candidates Dem or Repub. Your koolaid-colored glasses must need a heavy-duty cleaning.
According to you, anything and everything is liberal oriented..wotta laugh! Thanks for the lol this morning pal. Your a hoot, really.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
You know, for a party who elected a guy who just can’t speak properly, you sure do pick some nits. “Just” is a midwestern thing. I’m from there, and I use it a lot. I think that dealing with what is really being said here is more constructive, but I doubt you can deal with that. You guys just can’t function outside of smear mode.
I’m glad Obama stood up to the rightwing BS, and I heartily approve of AP stepping up. Try reading it this way:
“We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there,”
Now we’re actually talking about something real.
August 15th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Jet, as far as I am concerned..Obama and Kuncinich are the only two that are putting information out there and not just giving us spin and bs. That goes for BOTH parties.
As for the koolaid drinking fools, they don’t have anything to add to a discussion but attacks..nothing new there eh?
August 15th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Dusty and Jet, the AP, through a “reporter”, is promoting the weak Obama (Obama let the AP stand up for him, he didn’t stand up for himself). Besides, it isn’t what the AP “reporter” implied to write, it’s what was written. I realize editorializing the “news” when it fits a particular agenda is fine with some people, but I find it repugnant. But, now that you all are on the Obama bandwagon, have you signed up for his Afghanistan and Pakistan “adventure”?
August 15th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Omfg..of course they are promoting Obama..your nucking futs SteveIL..your so paranoid it would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic.
I haven’t picked a candidate..but I support Obama giving us some truth instead of just spin and talking points. Unlike you I still want to hear some substance.
Bet your a Freddy Thompson fan SteveIL
August 15th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
I could understand it in an editorial, but in a “news” report? Do you even have a clue as to what I am talking about?
Name me one bit of spin and talking points Obama hasn’t used. Remember, I’m from the state he is supposed to represent, a state whose other Senator (the crybaby) has called the soldiers Nazis, Communists, and Khmer Rouge (until he got slapped down by his meal ticket, Mayor Daley, which is why Durbin really cried). Obama lost the one tough election when the newspapers didn’t help him out.
Bet you I’m not.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
BushCo yanked the troops out of Afghanistan way too early, so that he could attack his original “enemy”country of Iraq. Now that Afghanistans AlQaeda is gearing up, there isn’t enough troops there to do the job..right or wrong SteveIL?
Your quite pathetic at this point..seeing things that aren’t there with regard to the spurious media and their liberal bias. Is Fox Noise the only media you believe? Whats the deal with you on every single media outlet being liberal? Are you that daft? How can you even spew that garbage and keep a straight face?
Voters on BOTH sides of the aisle have said we blew it in Afghanistan, pulling out troops too early, so that BushCo could strike Iraq while he still had support for the PNAC-backed endeavor that had been out there for years prior to 9/11.
This isn’t about the ‘other’ senator in IL.Try staying to the subject at hand..Obama. I could give a rat’s ass what you say about him..your so far gone its sad. You see liberal agendas in everything that is written. Where are those guys in the little white coats? They surely are looking for you.
Jet’s article is about how Obama is giving us more than just spin. Did you read it or as usual just go off half-cocked?
August 15th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Wrong. It’s supposed to be a NATO mission, and other than Britain, the rest of NATO hasn’t stepped up.
Remember that little article from MSNBC not too long ago, the one that showed 9 out of 10 media people in America being Democrats, thus proving the bias that is in the media of this country?
I read it. It’s spin. The same type Obama is spewing.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
SteveIl, you ignorant slut..you wouldn’t know a liberal unless they kicked you in the ass. Hillary is right of the center. Obama is a moderate. The ONLY liberals are Kucinich and Feingold you pathetic waste of skin.
You see liberals everywhere in everything. Which makes ANYTHING you spew worthless and at best a rightwing, neocon, freeper-style rant.
Your so fucking gone you won’t even admit BushCo blew it in Afghanistan. NATO? Christ, you don’t even LIKE NATO or the UN..yet now your telling us its their job to fix Afghanistan?
Rich..so very rich indeed.
August 15th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
NATO didn’t invade Afghanistan..WE did. But lets not quibble on your glaring bullshit premise ok?
Provide a link to the MSNBC article and show me what the fuck your babbling about now FreeperBoy.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Here’s a link to a video that goes against the assertions being made by Obama and the AP, that are troops are “not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians”.
Here you go.
Hillary is right of center if Joe Stalin is the center. Hell, I would admit that Kucinich and Feingold are to the right of Stalin.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
I don’t read rightwing blogs..so I will dismiss the first link without so much as a peek. The 2nd link doesn’t work FreeperBoy.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
How’s this?
August 15th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Gee, did you miss this disclaimer on the writeup FreeperBoy?
“The final list represents a tiny percentage of the working journalists in the nation. Daily newspapers alone employ about 60,000 full-time journalists. Approximately 30,000 work in television news jobs and 10,000 in radio news.”
There is nothing in that article which states people can not be fair when writing despite who they support in their private lives. It isn’t a scientific poll either FreeperBoy..its culled from records and doesn’t prove squat.
I ran an Accts Recievable Dept. I hated deadbeat companies that owed us millions. But I had to keep that pov out of my job especially when I talked to the deadbeats..er..the debtor companies..it was quite easy..evidently you are unable or unwilling to give anyone the benefit of the doubt..afterall..its that Damned Liberal MEDIA’s FAULT!!!!!! lol..take your meds dude.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
So? Mr. Baker (or, I’m assuming it’s Mr. Baker) posted about a poll from Democrats.com that said a majority of Americans are against wiretapping without warrants. 1006 people were called. There are 300,000,000 people in this country, of which approximately 2/3 are of legal voting age. I already knew that the MSNBC piece wasn’t a scientific poll, yet the percentage to the whole of those polled by MSNBC is greater when compared with the percentage to the whole of those polled by Democrats.com. Personally, it looks more credible, especially in light of the ridiculous question presented in the Democrats.com poll (which we’ve already commented on there).
Based on the actions of Democrats in Congress since 2002, many of these journalists act more like shills of their party than objective reporters. Take a look at the piece Jet linked to.
By the way, why don’t you look at the video on Hot Air? I thought you were for the troops, especially the ones in Afghanistan. I’m sorry they’re not railing away against the policies of ChimpMcBushHitler, but those are the breaks.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Steve-makes-me-IL..your rightwing blogs are of no interest to me. If I want to know what the rightwing nutjobs are thinking..I watch Chris Matthews who actually HAS rightwingers speaking on his show.
LOL..you can not dismiss one without the other right? It was ME that posted the Democrat poll btw..but sure..just for the sake of argument I will agree with your space cadet way of thinking. Your bs about ALL the MEDIA BEING LIBRUL is a crock and you know it.
How do you, in your tinfoil hat elitist-wear, explain the NYT holding the wiretapping story until AFTER the elections?? No self-respecting Librul rag would do that..they would of broken it asap.
GIve it a rest FreeperBoy. Your making about as much sense as Limbaugh.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
You think the Hillary beast is a right winger. You don’t know what a right winger is.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
I said Hillary was right of the center..get it right FreeperBoy. Don’t pull the usual bs of misrepresenting my words. You actually put it in block quotes on one of your delusional comments for Christs sake.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
And speaking of us “right wingers”, you’re lack of interest in viewing the video at Hot Air proves you are not what you claim to be, a liberal (which, I already knew). To be one, one has to have an open mind.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Right-on FreeperBoy..out me..go on..out me! I think your tinfoil elitist wear is a tad snug today.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Hey, I’m not the one refusing to look at a video. Nice job supporting the troops.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Right..I don’t support the troops..laughable only because I know I do, I have and will continue to do so..when is the last time YOU bought them some body armor FreeperBoy? When is the last time you sent them a care package?
Your disgusting to even insinuate such bullshit.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
I have family in Afghanistan you dumb sonofabitch. Don’t even go there.
August 15th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
That’s right, you do (have a family member in Afghanistan). How do you know your family member isn’t in the video?