Moral Mutiny
As a Democrat, I have more than passing experience on the difficulty of keeping disparate groups all under the same tent. Not that our philosophies are all that different, mind you. Our troubles stem from disagreement on implementation, and priority. Dean’s 50 state strategy comes to mind. When he first started with it, the old school was calling for his head. Now that we hold majorities, he’s hailed as a hero. Good ol’ hindsight.
Reading the New York Times today left me laughing, however. The Republicans have a moral mutiny on their hand, with the uber conservative crowd threatening to branch off in support of a third party candidate who is less objectionable than cross dressin’, mob lovin’ Rudy. Ooh, he “likes” abortions too. Boo!
A revolt of Christian conservative leaders could be a significant setback to the Giuliani campaign because white evangelical Protestants make up a major share of Republican primary voters, including more than a third of voters in Iowa and South Carolina. — NYT
Running a third party candidate is an excellent idea. I strongly support that. Go to town. Watching the far right marginalize themselves after disenfranchising their moderates is the sweet taste of victory. The Republican Party is a political car wreck.
Just.Can’t.Look.Away.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:31 pm
As opposed to who, the Democrats? Yeah, you all have the Hillary-beast, “Squeaker” Pelosi, “Pinky” Reid, Barry Obama, and not a single one shows an ounce of leadership. If the Republicans are a “car wreck”, then the Dems are a train wreck.
Did you ever hear of these guys:
These were all those indicted by Giuliani for the New York Mafia Commission Trial. Indelicato is the only one out of prison, released after serving 12 years. Dellacroce died of cancer before he could stand trial. Castellano was murdered not long after Dellacroce died on the orders of John Gotti, again, before standing trial. Rastelli was tried separately on other charges for which he was convicted and died in prison. Salerno, Corallo, Santoro, and Scopo all died in prison (all of natural causes). Persico, Langella, and Furnari are still in prison. This how much Rudy “loves” the mob; 8 men sent to prison, 3 still in prison, 4 dead in prison. Yeah, Kerik supposedly has ties with the New Jersey DiTommaso brothers, who have been alleged for years as having ties to the mob (going back to when Torricelli was a New Jersey Senator), although nothing has ever been proven (the DiTommasos have been indicted for perjury and their trial is scheduled to start in December).
Continuing to assume Rudy “loves” the mob because his last name is Italian, and because he sent some of the biggest mob wiseguys to prison, is downright racist. Is this what it means to be “progressive”?
October 1st, 2007 at 3:07 pm
SteveIL, you idiot, the mob crack has to do with his connections to Bernie Kerik. (Jesus, man, just how out of touch are you? Do you ever read the friggin’ papers?)
JMJ
October 1st, 2007 at 3:47 pm
SteveIL, I’m sure all our readers are just agog at your name calling prowess. Hey, everybody, come over to this side of the playground! SteveIL’s got a new name for democrats!
I was referring to Kerik, a well published gaffe, or worse, by Rudy. Interesting that you “inferred” a racist slant to that. Where, exactly, is YOUR mind at?
Oh, and Jersey, he reads winger blogs. Nuff said.
October 1st, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Ahem, I covered Kerik in my comment. Kerik is no more connected to the mob than Giuliani. The DiTommaso’s have never been definitively connected to the mob, and have never been convicted of a crime (although they are being tried on perjury charges in December; even a perjury conviction does not preclude mob ties).
So, you are inferring questionable indirect mob ties, when EVERYONE knows Giuliani has been tougher on the Mafia than anybody with a (D) next to their name. I’ve mentioned this previously, yet the allegations are still there. Therefore, there is only one other reason why one would continue to allege Rudy’s mob ties, and that would be because he has an Italian last name, which helps since he’s Italian.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:03 pm
“Kerik is no more connected to the mob than Giuliani.”
You should see, SteveIL, that educated officials are supposed to know about stuff like this. You’re assuming that Giuliani, the great mafia buster(?), had no idea about the mob and Kerik, or any of the other operations that we can be comfortably sure exist to this day. It’s really neither here nor there, but Jet’s point stands.
Careful what you wish for, SteveIL. You might wind up with the GOP president who makes this one look “conservative” in even your eyes!
JMJ
October 1st, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Bullshit. U.S. Attorneys just completed convicting 5 Chicago Outfit members of racketeering and 3 of those 5 of murder, meaning all will be facing decades behind bars. It took 11 years to get these guys, and one of those murders was committed over 30 years ago. I’ll bet if they looked hard enough, they could probably tie every one of these to the current Mayor Daley since he’s been in office for 18 years. It would probably take another generation to dig up anything definitively. So, in your world, I could say Daley has mob ties simply because of how long the Outfit has been around, what they do, and because of how long Daley has been mayor. And it would be just as much bullshit as that load of crap you’re selling.
And considering how big a mob town Hot Springs, Arkansas has been, one could say the Clintons have mob ties too (I guess that means Huckabee as well). Cleveland also is a big mob city. Guess that means it’s OK to talk about Kucinich and his mob ties.
Jet’s point, and yours as well, falls to dust.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 am
All this tit-for-tat your-guys-are-worse than mine has WHAT to do with the GOP’s problems at fund-raising and gaining support among those who are becoming an increasing greater % of population/voting.
Nixon is dead and isn’t around to comment on - or revise - his Southern strategy. And, if all the GOP has is more jingoism, fundamentalism, xenophobia and fiscal mismanagement, it’s not going to survive - certainly not in its current form.
Appealing to the worst of people - fear and nationalism - will only go so far when middle-class people feel the crunch of Bush’s class warfare against them. When families cannot afford healthcare for their children; and cannot trust the toys/food they buy for their children; and cannot trust the bridges they cross to work every day. … even as we send billions upon billions to “build” Iraq’s infrastructure.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:00 am
I put this post up primarily as an observation that the Christian Right became the power force in the Republican Party to the point many traditional Republicans became disenfranchised from their own party. Now that the Christian Right is a force to toady to, they are making noises about leaving, which would effectively split the party. Not very nice. Not too smart either, since leaving one of two major parties in this country in shambles leaves the other in an enviable position of strength.
Naturally, the point of the post isn’t discussed since its core is truth. SteveIL has to pick the fringe, once again. I for one am getting tired of getting my threads hijacked for BS. Stay on topic, or don’t comment.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:36 am
Well, Jet, don’t put in the BS, and maybe someone will make a point on topic. Of course, you never did accurately discuss the S-CHIP garbage over on your other post here. Which ended up being hijacked by others.
Yes, the “mob-lovin’ Rudy” line was way over the top, especially since there is ample evidence that he did more to damage the New York mob than anyone else.
October 2nd, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Dude, this is my house, and I will write whatever I damn well please in it. If I don’t feel like or have time to respond to a hijacked thread, I don’t. Deal.
That doesn’t mean that by hijacking the thread you are enriching the conversation in any way. I didn’t take the time to write a post on the potential shear in the Republican party because I was dying to discuss Giuliani’s mob ties. It’s like you make a point of reading a post to find some tanget you can steer the message to. Why you think you’re justified behaving that way constantly is bizarre. It’s insulting to our writers and our readers.
I’m 4 weeks into a brand new puppy that is giving me 5 hours of sleep tops per night. I’m feeling a mite short tempered, so if you don’t like what I’m doing on my own damn blog, get stuffed.
You’re welcome to hang elsewhere.
October 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Jet
He isn’t just welcome to hang somewhere else, he is encouraged to do so. Very rarely have I seen someone so consistently willing to pull a conversation off on some little Right Wing tangent and then refuse to provide facts to back up his asinine statements. The guy is a troll. It’s why I won’t argue with him anymore. It’s like the old saying goes, never argue with an idiot, they just drag you down to their level, and they have a lot more experience.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Beginning a conversation with a talking point that is a proven falsehood is not a way to start an enriching discussion. Therefore, I treated it as such.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:49 pm
And good luck with your new puppy.
October 3rd, 2007 at 8:32 am
Thanks, but you NEVER addressed the focus of the post. Not one bit. From here on, I will edit your comments if I see you hijacking threads. If you don’t like that, I suggest you either stay on topic, or avoid commenting.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:06 pm
The focus of the post, Christian conservatives upset about the possible Republican “mob-lovin’ Rudy” (your words, not theirs) is pointless as later on in the piece they mention that many influential conservatives warn that the alternative is Josephine Stalin Hillary Clinton. I think what you’ll see is that just about all will accept Rudy to keep Bill from again staining the White House (oh yeah; and to keep Stalin Hillary out too). Only the die-hards will whine.
It’s kind of like how the Democrats always hate it when Nader runs because he takes all the nutty leftist voters away from the Democratic candidate. Now the leftists are the mainstream of the Democratic Party. But not of the American people.
And I did address the post in my first comment. You said the Republican Party is a “car wreck”. I rightfully pointed out that if the Republicans are a “car wreck”, then the Democrats are a “train wreck”.